Dec. 18, 2023

Insights into Indigenous Health: A Focus on Cultural Sensitivity

The player is loading ...

Send us a text

What would it be like if you could experience firsthand the rich and complex tapestry of Indigenous culture, through the eyes of someone who's lived it? Let's set off on this journey together with Kendall Fitzgerald, a local Kaurna and Narungga woman with a goldmine of experience as an Aboriginal health worker. You will be enlightened by her powerful stories and insights about Indigenous health, cultural customs, and the significance of language and cultural sensitivity in healthcare.

We also bring you a candid conversation with an adept liaison officer, who maps out her navigation through the hospital system. She will unpack her strategies for strengthening communication with Indigenous patients and why building relationships matters.

Hear firsthand experiences from a passionate advocate, who now works within a boarding school, who creates bridges of understanding between students and the Indigenous community. Be ready for an episode packed with valuable insights, personal stories, and thought-provoking discussions. You wouldn't want to miss it.

Resources:- ( Click for link)

Aussie Med Ed is sponsored by -HealthShare is a digital health company, that provides solutions for patients, General Practitioners and Specialists across Australia.

Aussie Med Ed is sponsored by Avant Medical Indemnity: They state that they offer holistic support to help the doctor practice safely and believe they have extensive cover that's continually evolving to meet your needs in the ever changing regulatory environment.

00:00 - Cultural Sensitivities in Indigenous Health

10:43 - Cultural Sensitivity in Healthcare

17:27 - Health Worker's Main Issues

24:49 - Cultural Sensitivity and Indigenous Health

WEBVTT

00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:11.929
As a health professional treating patients from many diverse cultures and religious faith, it's important to observe cultural customs and sensitivities of the different communities, both as a mark of respect but also to allow the patient to feel more comfortable.

00:00:12.519 --> 00:00:18.469
This is especially important when treating our Indigenous community and as such I'm very privileged to be joined by Kendall Fitzgerald.

00:00:19.089 --> 00:00:23.829
She's a local Kaurna and Narungga woman who's worked and lived in the Aboriginal community all her life.

00:00:24.495 --> 00:00:29.204
And she's spent 22 years working as an Aboriginal health worker in two major hospitals in Adelaide.

00:00:29.785 --> 00:00:37.304
She's currently working in education and has agreed to be interviewed on Aussie Med Ed to outline some aspects of Indigenous health and culture from a health treatment perspective.

00:00:38.304 --> 00:00:45.984
G'day and welcome to Aussie Med Ed, the Australian medical education podcast, designed with a pragmatic approach to medical conditions by interviewing specialists in the medical field.

00:00:46.573 --> 00:00:50.944
I'm Gavin Nimon, an orthopaedic surgeon based in Adelaide, and I'm broadcasting from Kaurna Land.

00:00:51.753 --> 00:00:57.054
I'd like to remind you that this podcast is available on all podcast players, and is also available as a video version on YouTube.

00:00:57.734 --> 00:01:04.944
I'd also like to remind you that if you enjoy this podcast, please subscribe or leave a review, or give us a thumbs up, as I really appreciate the support and it helps the channel grow.

00:01:05.088 --> 00:01:14.088
I'd like to start the podcast by acknowledging the traditional owners of the land on which this podcast is produced, the Kaurna people, and pay my respects to the Elders both past, present and emerging.

00:01:18.739 --> 00:01:24.468
I'd like to remind you that all the information presented today is just one opinion and that there are numerous ways of treating all medical conditions.

00:01:24.959 --> 00:01:28.319
Therefore, you should always seek advice from your health professionals in the area in which you live.

00:01:29.058 --> 00:01:36.909
Also, if you have any concerns about the information raised today, Please speak to your GP or seek assistance from health organisations such as Lifeline in Australia.

00:01:38.069 --> 00:01:41.498
Well, it's my pleasure now to introduce Kendall Fitzgerald.

00:01:40.718 --> 00:01:41.498
Welcome, Kendall.

00:01:41.519 --> 00:01:43.368
Thank you very much for coming on Aussie Med Ed.

00:01:43.718 --> 00:01:44.718
Thank you for having me, Gavin.

00:01:45.108 --> 00:01:45.838
Good to be here.

00:01:46.049 --> 00:01:47.049
As nervous as I am.

00:01:48.049 --> 00:01:49.349
I'm delighted to have you on.

00:01:49.368 --> 00:01:56.338
It's fantastic to hear about this really important subject and to learn a bit more about the Indigenous community and culture and history.

00:01:56.338 --> 00:01:57.948
So thank you very much for coming on board.

00:01:58.129 --> 00:01:59.218
Yeah, no worries.

00:01:59.668 --> 00:02:06.534
I'm gonna ask if you can start off by telling me a little bit about yourself and also about the Kaurna and Narungga people and community.

00:02:06.784 --> 00:02:10.609
Perhaps a little bit about the history and a little bit about yourself and your involvement in it.

00:02:11.014 --> 00:02:11.954
Yeah, sounds good.

00:02:12.183 --> 00:02:14.743
Yeah, so like you said, I'm a Kaurna and Narungga woman.

00:02:14.764 --> 00:02:17.533
They're the two language groups that I identify with.

00:02:17.614 --> 00:02:21.373
And as most of you would know, the Kaurna area is our local Adelaide area.

00:02:21.599 --> 00:02:25.669
And Narungga country is over on the York Peninsula.

00:02:26.889 --> 00:02:34.919
And so yeah, I've grown up here in Adelaide , and I've been very strongly connected with the community here, so.

00:02:35.704 --> 00:02:44.633
It's funny, my colleagues, when they see me out at community events, they're just like, oh god, you know everybody, you know, and that's something that's really strong about our culture.

00:02:45.283 --> 00:03:11.723
So, I guess leading in to culture um, when you look at the map of Australia and all of the different language groups that are made up within the country, you know, there's over 200, and I think before colonisation there was well over 700 languages with with sort of, overlapping kind of dialects, so when we talk about Aboriginal culture is stronger in certain parts of the country than it is in others.

00:03:11.734 --> 00:03:16.183
So for us here in Adelaide, colonisation had a huge effect on our culture.

00:03:16.574 --> 00:03:21.014
For example, I don't, I can't speak my own language because it was lost.

00:03:21.544 --> 00:03:27.794
And we know that past government policies kind of, prevented us from speaking language, so it's been lost along the way.

00:03:28.618 --> 00:03:39.149
Thankfully though, seeing some huge steps across quite a lot of languages where they're being rebuilt with linguists in universities and stuff like that.

00:03:39.149 --> 00:03:45.729
So I am really proud to say in August this year I enrolled to go and learn Kaurna language.

00:03:46.508 --> 00:03:48.829
So that's been really what's the word?

00:03:49.514 --> 00:03:50.633
empowering for me.

00:03:51.204 --> 00:03:54.774
So I go off once a week and I do it and I'm trying to incorporate that around the house.

00:03:55.894 --> 00:03:56.753
And at school.

00:03:56.963 --> 00:03:57.933
So yeah, that's been good.

00:03:57.933 --> 00:04:02.574
And I was actually going to open up actually by saying Niina Marni, Gavin, because that means hi, how are you?

00:04:02.743 --> 00:04:03.984
Yeah, have you heard that term before?

00:04:04.063 --> 00:04:04.753
Oh, okay.

00:04:05.274 --> 00:04:12.688
I do believe one of our lecturers actually used that when we had one of our podcasts previously, and I realized that's what she was mentioning.

00:04:12.693 --> 00:04:12.989
So.

00:04:13.558 --> 00:04:16.139
It's actually, I'm quite keen to learn a few more words as well,

00:04:16.189 --> 00:04:19.238
Well, that can be another thing that I can keep forwarding to you.

00:04:19.238 --> 00:04:23.418
So yeah, normally you'd say Niina Marni and then if you're well, you would reply with Marni Ai.

00:04:24.178 --> 00:04:47.838
Yeah, anyway, so that's a language I guess that I'm finding really good for me, the culture, and then especially for my children who are I guess growing up in a Western world, but again, when we talk about culture and having strong connections in the community, culture for me is not only, you know, practicing culture, ceremonies, all that kind of stuff.

00:04:47.839 --> 00:04:52.738
It's just, You know, we've got a modern way of culture and it's how we connect with each other.

00:04:53.338 --> 00:05:03.608
And I think some of those things it's sort of hard to explain what I mean but, you know, aunties and uncles, those kinship relationships.

00:05:04.069 --> 00:05:10.598
People I call auntie and uncle, or cuz, or brother, sister, might not be my immediate brothers or sisters.

00:05:10.598 --> 00:05:11.668
It's just how we connect.

00:05:13.158 --> 00:05:19.738
Yeah, and like I said, it's really hard to explain, and I guess a lot of cultural groups would probably have similarities with those kind of connections.

00:05:20.689 --> 00:05:23.403
Well, I did do a little bit of reading for this interview today.

00:05:23.913 --> 00:05:35.069
And a couple of things that really came to mind when I was reading up about the indigenous culture was factors of connection to country, family, and kinship, and caring for country and ironically.

00:05:35.584 --> 00:05:54.644
In this post COVID era, it's almost, it's funny that the Western community is actually heading towards those areas about the importance of looking after themselves and their family, about the importance of sustainability in the environment, and so, the Western community is trying to emulate what Indigenous cultures always had, I believe.

00:05:55.149 --> 00:05:55.459
Yep.

00:05:55.718 --> 00:06:00.459
It has made us sort of realise those very basic important things, I guess.

00:06:00.668 --> 00:06:01.428
And you're right, you're 100%.

00:06:03.199 --> 00:06:08.733
I know for me you know, I live in this fast world, work, kids, married.

00:06:09.103 --> 00:06:17.283
When I go back out to York Peninsula on country, that sense of, oh, you know, that, that feeling.

00:06:18.663 --> 00:06:19.303
It's amazing.

00:06:19.314 --> 00:06:21.524
And again, other people can relate to that as well.

00:06:21.564 --> 00:06:28.983
You might have a, you know, some of us have got those places where we might come from, which might be out in the country and just that feeling that you get.

00:06:28.983 --> 00:06:29.673
But yeah, you're right.

00:06:29.673 --> 00:06:32.303
Connection to country is really important.

00:06:33.033 --> 00:06:46.233
And I think that's why when we do acknowledgements and welcomes, we've got to really, um, remember the significance of those and I thought I would touch on those because they do relate to culture.

00:06:47.113 --> 00:06:49.024
I think we've come a long way.

00:06:49.733 --> 00:06:58.584
When we're doing, you know, you're in an event or in a meeting, and we do acknowledgements and everyone's doing them now, and it's really good.

00:06:59.733 --> 00:07:05.024
And I think we are now at a point where um, we don't wanna overuse 'em.

00:07:05.963 --> 00:07:07.613
We wanna make them meaningful.

00:07:07.853 --> 00:07:11.004
And actually there's a Ted talk Gavin, I'm gonna share with you.

00:07:11.004 --> 00:07:15.093
It is brilliant and it's around acknowledgements and welcomes.

00:07:15.584 --> 00:07:16.153
So.

00:07:17.494 --> 00:07:22.793
know you know, we've seen in the media about, you know, acknowledgement of countries, why do we have to do them?

00:07:23.153 --> 00:07:29.954
And I guess when you think about culture, it's, we're kind of mirroring what our ancestors would have done.

00:07:30.103 --> 00:07:46.774
And because Aboriginal people travelled a lot, if we went, if we were travelling or whatever, and we went to someone else's country, people would be welcoming and they'd say, welcome, you know, this is our country, where are you heading?

00:07:47.093 --> 00:07:48.024
Where are you from?

00:07:48.324 --> 00:07:49.644
You know, we ask those questions.

00:07:49.944 --> 00:07:52.983
Oh cool, okay, well if you're heading north, go this way.

00:07:52.983 --> 00:07:55.824
Go up that way, because that's the safe travel.

00:07:56.103 --> 00:08:00.303
Well don't go that way, over there, because There might be women's business happening over there.

00:08:00.303 --> 00:08:10.153
So, it is a nice strong part of culture that I guess we're preserving and wanting to share with the general community.

00:08:10.553 --> 00:08:11.394
So it's really good.

00:08:11.754 --> 00:08:17.653
And I really love working in schools because I think our our future generations are really getting that right.

00:08:17.754 --> 00:08:28.494
And again, we've come a long way with those acknowledgements in that it's, We've always traditionally sort of, you know, we give someone a script and we go here, this is what you say.

00:08:29.744 --> 00:08:31.353
But it almost doesn't have meaning anymore.

00:08:31.923 --> 00:08:37.833
So we're now shifting, I guess, to more meaningful acknowledgements and there's ways to do that.

00:08:37.943 --> 00:08:38.323
Yeah.

00:08:38.913 --> 00:08:40.124
Rather than sounding robotic.

00:08:40.124 --> 00:08:40.923
Does that make sense?

00:08:42.354 --> 00:08:43.394
Very much so.

00:08:43.504 --> 00:08:53.163
Certainly at the start of our podcast, we have an Acknowledgement to Country, which I actually obtained a formal one from the I think the College of Surgeons years ago.

00:08:53.583 --> 00:09:07.514
But as I said to you when speaking to you previously, I feel like I should say, look, I feel very privileged to be able to share the Indigenous lands and acknowledge that it is Indigenous lands, the Kaurna people, and like to pay my respects to the Elders.

00:09:08.184 --> 00:09:24.274
whO have actually allowed us to share these lands, so that's from more from the heart as opposed to a robotic sort of speech, and I, of course, always, I've always been concerned about whether that was okay to do it or not, and I think you mentioned that it was certainly appropriate and better than the standard one.

00:09:25.644 --> 00:09:38.034
And I guess when we are thinking about sort of moving into the health context you know, like, if I can share how I came to know you, Gavin, coming into your clinic and, you know, seeing that sign on your door.

00:09:38.085 --> 00:09:40.955
It was just a simple sticker located on Kaurna land.

00:09:41.365 --> 00:09:42.855
That spoke volumes to me.

00:09:43.115 --> 00:10:11.408
You know, just a simple gesture is huge and to me that's kind of a step in your, you know, you've taken part in those steps to reconciliation and stuff, because it's saying welcome, come in, come into our clinic, you know, yeah so sometimes it is just those really little things, yeah, and I guess in the wider health context, like you said, I worked in two major hospitals across a span of 20 years.

00:10:11.590 --> 00:10:14.370
10 years being in Women's and Children's Hospital.

00:10:15.320 --> 00:10:18.070
The other 10 being in Flinders Medical Centre.

00:10:18.570 --> 00:10:20.080
Absolutely loved my work there.

00:10:20.129 --> 00:10:21.529
I learnt so much.

00:10:22.820 --> 00:10:25.399
And yes, that was a long time.

00:10:25.710 --> 00:10:27.490
I'm 47 years old now.

00:10:27.870 --> 00:10:29.529
I still continue to learn every day.

00:10:30.200 --> 00:10:32.190
I think it's like anything, we never stop learning.

00:10:33.120 --> 00:10:49.029
And one of the you know, things for me in doing that kind of work and part of my role, so I was a liaison officer, basically helping Metropolitan Aboriginal people but also a large probably about 80 percent of our patients were from rural and remote areas.

00:10:49.039 --> 00:10:57.350
So just helping them to navigate the hospital system and helping with that two way communication between medical staff and them.

00:10:58.389 --> 00:11:12.389
I know it's challenging sometimes but You know, the one message that we were constantly getting across is, you know, we're such a diverse people, so what might be right culturally, for one, is certainly going to be different to the next person.

00:11:12.480 --> 00:11:14.269
And that, I don't know all those answers.

00:11:15.309 --> 00:11:18.500
But it's just about being sensitive, really culturally sensitive.

00:11:19.740 --> 00:11:28.190
And again, I guess I can only reflect on my experiences in hospitals and I guess it's like any of us with our jobs these days where we're providing a service to people.

00:11:28.259 --> 00:11:30.879
We're very time, we're under time constraints.

00:11:31.570 --> 00:11:46.509
we're very task orientated whereas I really encourage you to kind of just spend a couple of minutes, you know, you know, if you're unsure about how that person's feeling, whether they're feeling comfortable, just, you know, there you go.

00:11:47.090 --> 00:11:47.950
So who's your mob?

00:11:48.090 --> 00:11:49.230
You know, where are you from?

00:11:49.580 --> 00:11:52.509
And I'm sure you do that anyway, kind of thing.

00:11:52.509 --> 00:12:03.490
But I just know that in the hospital setting, some of our more rural people would just, they'd just close up because it was like, you know, they come in and they want to take a history and they want to do this and they want to do that.

00:12:03.500 --> 00:12:04.179
It's just bang bang.

00:12:04.179 --> 00:12:06.220
And they just go, Oh my God, this is overwhelming.

00:12:06.220 --> 00:12:09.990
But just you know, just a few minutes to get to know them.

00:12:10.465 --> 00:12:15.225
I guess gender issues can be an issue sometimes.

00:12:15.254 --> 00:12:20.065
I don't, is it okay to just share some examples of things?

00:12:20.325 --> 00:12:20.554
yeah

00:12:20.934 --> 00:12:30.774
I just remember once being in a room in a hospital with a patient, but I knew that there was a quite a traditional man in the next room who was getting prepped for an angiogram.

00:12:31.855 --> 00:12:57.799
And I could hear the female nurse saying, you know, really loud, the door was open, I'm sure she would have shut the door eventually, but, you know, okay, it's time, you know, we've had to shave him down in that pelvic area, and she was very, really loud and I could just, I was just cringing, because I thought, she's not doing anything wrong, but there probably would have been more appropriate to have a male nurse doing that, given that this man was You know, quite traditional.

00:12:58.539 --> 00:13:03.490
Um, I guess the other thing too is assumptions, as well.

00:13:04.159 --> 00:13:05.870
And our unconscious biases.

00:13:06.129 --> 00:13:12.669
I do, I know it's something I'm constantly working on with me, with certain things and people in society.

00:13:12.669 --> 00:13:21.080
But you know, and this is just another example, but I had, because we are a minority group, Aboriginal people.

00:13:22.144 --> 00:13:25.164
Unfortunately, sometimes we are stereotyped.

00:13:25.225 --> 00:13:30.375
Not everyone does it, but we still sometimes are painted all with the one brush.

00:13:30.904 --> 00:13:35.634
And I never forget working with this beautiful woman who had spent a lot of time, she lived in the country.

00:13:36.335 --> 00:13:41.264
She had to come to Adelaide because she had really bad liver disease, and she needed a transplant.

00:13:41.934 --> 00:13:49.274
And a nurse was just casually talking to her, and I found out about this because the patient came to see me really upset.

00:13:49.815 --> 00:13:58.784
And she said, the nurse was lovely, you know, they were having a good old chat, but it came up in conversation around the assumption that her liver disease was caused through alcohol use.

00:13:59.884 --> 00:14:04.465
When it simply wasn't, but it was just that, you know, it's just that unconscious bias kind of stuff.

00:14:05.014 --> 00:14:11.914
So, yeah, but I think, you know, medical students are getting some really good training these days.

00:14:12.720 --> 00:14:22.159
I mean, I haven't been in the health system for about eight years now, but I know even towards in those last few years that I was sort of living, there was lots of really good stuff happening.

00:14:23.200 --> 00:14:27.779
And it was actually part of our role as well, was to talk to some of the students as well.

00:14:27.789 --> 00:14:29.840
So that was always really good.

00:14:30.029 --> 00:14:31.519
We get lots of good questions.

00:14:31.929 --> 00:14:41.350
You're saying really, obviously showing respect and giving time to form a relationship before going into interview to take a history and examination.

00:14:41.830 --> 00:14:51.659
And one word actually you popped up, actually was in my mind to ask you if it did come up was, obviously I'd talk about Indigenous communities or the tribe.

00:14:52.330 --> 00:14:54.830
but I know you all regularly use the word mob.

00:14:54.860 --> 00:15:01.269
Is it appropriate for me to refer to Indigenous group as a mob or is that more coming from an Indigenous person?

00:15:01.889 --> 00:15:04.592
yeah, I guess it just depends on the context and who you're speaking to.

00:15:04.592 --> 00:15:07.134
Like, that's a really good question actually.

00:15:07.134 --> 00:15:09.313
Yeah, I don't see why not.

00:15:09.313 --> 00:15:17.192
And I guess you would know, you would probably get the feeling of when it's maybe right to use it.

00:15:17.283 --> 00:15:20.493
Yeah, it's part of our vocab in the community.

00:15:20.952 --> 00:15:22.582
Yeah, how are you and your mob going?

00:15:22.592 --> 00:15:23.143
Or, you know.

00:15:23.462 --> 00:15:25.712
Yeah, I use it a lot,

00:15:25.952 --> 00:15:29.793
yeah, that's, I have heard you mention it before so that did pop into my head as well.

00:15:29.802 --> 00:15:35.133
So the you talked about the, obviously the sensitivities between the female nurse.

00:15:35.977 --> 00:15:37.557
Preparing the male patient.

00:15:37.888 --> 00:15:39.138
What about the opposite as well?

00:15:39.138 --> 00:15:43.148
Male nurses being involved, or male doctors being involved in female patients as well.

00:15:43.148 --> 00:15:45.048
What are the sensitivities there?

00:15:45.048 --> 00:15:50.697
And are there things that we need to observe, particularly more than in, in general Western communities as well?

00:15:51.677 --> 00:15:52.048
Okay,

00:15:52.243 --> 00:16:00.447
oh look, I guess You know, again, and like you said, so we're so diverse and everyone's needs are going to be so different to the next person.

00:16:01.067 --> 00:16:05.727
It's all gender, those gender balances are always good to have in the back of your mind.

00:16:06.107 --> 00:16:11.918
But you know, we also get that it just can't always be helped due to resources or, you know, staffing.

00:16:12.977 --> 00:16:17.307
So, you know, and yeah, it can't always be helped, but usually.

00:16:18.508 --> 00:16:25.067
Patients have got a family member or, and again, I'm only reflecting on my hospital sort of experiences.

00:16:25.107 --> 00:16:30.988
There were us, there were liaison officers who could be present if a patient wanted that support or, yeah.

00:16:31.138 --> 00:16:32.187
But someone like me.

00:16:32.972 --> 00:16:41.633
You know, City Girl, you know, I'm quite fine to navigate my way through, through services and what not, and it's not so much an issue for me.

00:16:42.852 --> 00:16:43.432
Yeah.

00:16:44.087 --> 00:16:51.038
In your job as a liaison health worker what were the main issues that you'd find that would actually come up in the scenario?

00:16:51.038 --> 00:16:52.628
Was it purely communication,

00:16:52.677 --> 00:17:00.238
Yeah, and again, I'm sort of speaking in there, you know, with people from rural remote areas who were a large proportion of the patients that we were working with.

00:17:01.018 --> 00:17:08.938
A lot of the time, um, you know, nursing staff would call down and they'd say, Can you come up and see so and so?

00:17:10.057 --> 00:17:11.698
We're struggling with communication.

00:17:12.188 --> 00:17:13.478
I think they need an interpreter.

00:17:14.317 --> 00:17:19.508
And in my 22 years working in hospitals, I think I've booked an interpreter twice.

00:17:20.617 --> 00:17:30.738
iT was just that, you know, yes, English was more often than not their second language, but it was just how that communication happened that, you know.

00:17:31.038 --> 00:17:33.228
And again, when you're in a rush and you need to get things done.

00:17:33.278 --> 00:17:39.178
But I guess that was our role as well, would be to sit there and help facilitate that kind of conversation.

00:17:39.577 --> 00:17:44.468
But more often than not they knew English, they could understand English.

00:17:44.857 --> 00:17:55.438
And I guess you've got to be very careful too, when you've got someone signing a consent to bypass surgery or something, you want to make sure that they understand what they're signing off to, so, so yeah.

00:17:55.708 --> 00:18:00.663
What are some of the other Just homesickness was a huge thing.

00:18:02.032 --> 00:18:05.603
Coming from a rural area into a big hospital was huge.

00:18:05.613 --> 00:18:11.083
So, just trying to help them with that sort of stuff, trying to get them out.

00:18:11.093 --> 00:18:13.242
A lot of the time they'd say, can you take me to the beach?

00:18:13.242 --> 00:18:14.502
I've never been to the beach.

00:18:14.853 --> 00:18:22.613
If they were sort of Central Australian mob what else sort of did we sort of deal with?

00:18:23.073 --> 00:18:26.423
Just lots of practical things while they were in Adelaide as well.

00:18:26.742 --> 00:18:28.752
When I was 15 I had to have an operation.

00:18:28.752 --> 00:18:34.333
So I had no medical knowledge . And I do recall the nurse giving me a kidney shaped dish when I felt sick.

00:18:34.633 --> 00:18:37.492
And I thought to myself, I better not get that dirty.

00:18:37.492 --> 00:18:39.182
That's obviously something really important.

00:18:39.593 --> 00:18:42.772
. And so it gave me a bit of insight . I had no medical idea.

00:18:43.163 --> 00:18:47.627
And so we as medical health professionals assume people know what things are for.

00:18:47.847 --> 00:18:54.178
And I think that's what you're saying here as well, you're saying speak more uh, sensibly rather than trying to use medical terms.

00:18:54.208 --> 00:18:54.817
100%.

00:18:55.188 --> 00:18:55.827
Yeah, that's it.

00:18:55.857 --> 00:18:59.948
A lot of these things don't just apply for our mob, they apply for a lot of people.

00:19:00.377 --> 00:19:01.337
Yeah, definitely.

00:19:02.038 --> 00:19:06.928
And I remember I remember going off to hospital once to emergency because I was having chest pain.

00:19:07.228 --> 00:19:09.307
Turned out to be like just a muscle thing.

00:19:09.627 --> 00:19:16.307
But I remember spending two nights in hospital having all these tests and really, yeah, like, like you said, when you were younger.

00:19:17.127 --> 00:19:22.817
Getting an understanding of what it's like being on the other side and I didn't like it.

00:19:22.917 --> 00:19:29.048
I really, I mean, everyone was wonderful to me and they looked after me beautifully, but I couldn't wait to get out.

00:19:29.048 --> 00:19:39.678
I just didn't like being on that other side of the, so yeah, it gave me an appreciation of what it's like for some of our people and then add on top of that being so far away from home.

00:19:41.883 --> 00:19:50.623
And I guess I mean, we can come back to the medical stuff, but I was just going to move into sort of where I'm at now and working in a school, a boarding school here in Adelaide.

00:19:51.732 --> 00:20:11.813
I Was kind of attracted to that position I'd come from a role where I was supporting people who are a long way from home to supporting students who are a long way from home in, you know, in schooling and I've been in this school now for seven years really love it.

00:20:12.442 --> 00:20:14.532
I love what's happening.

00:20:15.053 --> 00:20:47.103
in schools in general these days around education and culture sharing and one of the big things, one of my main roles is just supporting our Indigenous students or Aboriginal students but I'm really big on and very passionate about sharing culture with the wider school community and I'm really hoping that, you know, over the generations we'll see some changes and some more, I guess, young people in our society who are understanding and yeah, and sensitive.

00:20:47.153 --> 00:20:47.522
Yeah.

00:20:47.574 --> 00:20:47.943
Excellent.

00:20:48.034 --> 00:20:48.314
That is

00:20:48.653 --> 00:21:02.732
I know we there's you know, sometimes people might not know, oh, you know, I want to experience some culture or, you know, I want to, you know, there any, um, is that something you sort of came for me to share about like what's around in Adelaide?

00:21:03.073 --> 00:21:03.442
Yeah.

00:21:03.442 --> 00:21:09.307
So what we do at our college is for all our year seven, so they're the youngest in the school.

00:21:09.347 --> 00:21:17.998
Every year when they come into our school it's in term one, so it's in the first two weeks of school, we have them go with a Kaurna Elder.

00:21:18.613 --> 00:21:23.792
In our local area, when I'm saying local, I'm in the Glenelg, sort of, Novar Gardens area.

00:21:24.202 --> 00:21:34.123
And this elder takes all these Year 7s on a tour around the area and talks to them about what, you know, what it was like here prior to civilisation.

00:21:34.472 --> 00:21:45.123
And one of the places he visits is the Glenelg Golf Club, because when you look at that's still got a lot of, I guess, the grasses, the ponds, and you know, it was a very hilly, sandy area.

00:21:45.738 --> 00:21:52.178
So, you know, there's a big hill there and he talks about that, how that was a big area where they went for messaging to other groups.

00:21:52.508 --> 00:21:55.048
And how the smoke would travel, like it's really fascinating.

00:21:55.048 --> 00:21:57.748
So our young people are getting some of this stuff.

00:21:58.518 --> 00:22:03.748
Um, we also have some people teaching Kaurna in schools as well.

00:22:04.347 --> 00:22:10.428
I mean years ago there was only a few people who could speak it, but that's really growing by the number which is really good.

00:22:10.728 --> 00:22:15.847
And I'm hoping I can incorporate some of that stuff into my role as well, as I get more confident with it.

00:22:16.528 --> 00:22:23.518
Yeah, you've got tours and stuff you can do down at the Botanic Gardens, where you can learn about, sort of, the local, you know, plant life, I guess.

00:22:23.518 --> 00:22:25.077
And but yeah, there's lots of stuff.

00:22:25.107 --> 00:22:27.018
There's the Tjilbruke Trail.

00:22:27.028 --> 00:22:28.067
Have you heard about that?

00:22:29.432 --> 00:22:30.123
No, I haven't heard

00:22:30.238 --> 00:22:34.417
Yeah, so Tjilbruke Trail it sort of runs along our coastline.

00:22:34.567 --> 00:22:48.782
Starting I think it kind of starts sort of around the, Brighton area down, right down but it's a dreaming story, it's a Kaurna dreaming story and there are places that you can visit to kind of, like there's a monument at Kingston Park.

00:22:49.222 --> 00:22:52.992
Like a statue thing that they which is Tjilbruke holding his nephew.

00:22:53.333 --> 00:22:57.653
I won't go into the story because it will take too long, but you know, so there's those kinds of things.

00:22:57.722 --> 00:23:09.468
I was going to ask you on that point With Indigenous culture is country considered the God or there a God in an Indigenous religion or is there a religion

00:23:09.478 --> 00:23:38.988
That's a really good question actually, and I talk a lot to students about this, but, culture for us and I guess spirituality for us is the dreaming, and so lots of Aboriginal cultural groups have lots of dreaming stories dreaming stories aren't just something we sit down and talk, you know, tell the storytelling for kids, but it kind of guided us around rules for living, law, you know, the do's and the don'ts.

00:23:38.998 --> 00:23:40.807
And these are the consequences if you do.

00:23:41.607 --> 00:23:43.458
They also taught us about creation.

00:23:43.827 --> 00:23:48.887
And an example of that, again, with the Tjilbruke story is a lot of the waterways.

00:23:49.282 --> 00:23:52.952
Down along the coast were created by Tjilbruke crying for his nephew.

00:23:52.952 --> 00:23:55.502
So those sorts of things so valuable.

00:23:55.532 --> 00:23:59.682
So I guess they're our, you know, the centre of our culture, I guess.

00:24:00.643 --> 00:24:04.202
And guided us for living and not doing the wrong thing.

00:24:04.613 --> 00:24:07.613
Some groups dont call it dreaming.

00:24:08.353 --> 00:24:09.702
Yeah, and that's a bit more complex.

00:24:09.712 --> 00:24:10.742
I probably won't go into that.

00:24:10.742 --> 00:24:12.923
And I really don't know enough about it to do that.

00:24:13.903 --> 00:24:40.307
But yeah, dreaming stories are really Huge and it's yeah, I know I love sharing them with my daughters, even though I wish I knew more, but yeah And the other thing I was just going to say to is I now I don't know you get a bit more Passionate about things as you get older, but I'm out now teaching Weaving I do I work part time in a school and in part time.

00:24:40.307 --> 00:24:54.472
I run my own little business teaching basket weaving and that's been really It's, let me just say, like, it's, I'm just getting bookings and I'm not even trying to, because people want that stuff, especially schools.

00:24:55.083 --> 00:24:56.363
Yeah, that's really cool.

00:24:56.772 --> 00:24:59.042
Things have certainly changed a lot since I was little.

00:24:59.292 --> 00:25:01.423
For the better, yeah.

00:25:01.833 --> 00:25:04.343
Still got a long way to go, but, yeah.

00:25:05.698 --> 00:25:17.288
Are there anything in particular we need to be aware of we talked about being respectful to the patients, is there anything like, in some communities, , for instance it's not appropriate to do too much eye contact especially for a guy to a lady.

00:25:17.698 --> 00:25:20.857
Is there anything in particular like that we need to be aware of yeah.

00:25:20.907 --> 00:25:23.827
Yeah look that certainly can sometimes be an issue.

00:25:23.968 --> 00:25:34.367
And I guess it's Not so much you worrying about what you need to do, but I guess just reading the room and, again, with assumptions.

00:25:34.407 --> 00:25:39.738
I know people sometimes go, oh they weren't making eye contact with me, so I don't think they understood.

00:25:40.307 --> 00:25:42.637
We'll, That is really not the case.

00:25:42.647 --> 00:25:48.458
So just if someone isn't making eye contact with you, it doesn't mean they're not listening or engaging.

00:25:48.907 --> 00:25:51.488
It might just be, you know, it is a cultural thing.

00:25:51.488 --> 00:25:54.647
And I don't know why I can't explain it but it is a common thing.

00:25:55.278 --> 00:25:55.778
But yeah.

00:25:55.883 --> 00:26:05.097
You know, as far as the language goes, it was two German guys who, Um, down by the Torrens, it was a common meeting area for Kaurna people.

00:26:06.377 --> 00:26:11.778
And these two German guys started recording words and stuff back in the 1800s.

00:26:12.557 --> 00:26:18.107
And yeah, they documented about 3, 000 to 4, 000 words, I think.

00:26:18.867 --> 00:26:23.167
And they sort of documented around 400 sentences or something like that.

00:26:23.798 --> 00:26:32.133
So that's kind of formed the basis or the foundation for us to try and rebuild the language from what they they documented everything.

00:26:32.482 --> 00:26:38.863
Whereas we pass stuff down through verbal storytelling, dancing, ceremonies.

00:26:38.863 --> 00:26:40.863
That's how our information was passed down.

00:26:41.333 --> 00:26:42.782
Painting, rock paintings.

00:26:43.192 --> 00:26:43.803
Yeah,

00:26:43.853 --> 00:26:53.923
Nowadays, are there any regular meeting places where the Kaurna tribe will catch up and or are there any other ceremonies or anything that you might be involved in at all that you do

00:26:54.343 --> 00:26:56.452
no, not really.

00:26:56.623 --> 00:27:01.563
Here in Adelaide, we are Because we're on, Kaurna land here.

00:27:01.923 --> 00:27:07.163
Our Adelaide Aboriginal community is really made up of people from all over the place.

00:27:07.163 --> 00:27:09.522
Obviously people work and travel and move around.

00:27:09.522 --> 00:27:21.522
And so a lot of the, you know, I go to, I'm also go to events and stuff, you know, music events or or sometimes.

00:27:22.492 --> 00:27:26.393
You know, it's more so getting together around rallies.

00:27:27.502 --> 00:27:33.992
Yeah, lots of it's music sometimes like smoking stuff which is usually open to the public.

00:27:34.383 --> 00:27:36.103
Smoking ceremonies and things.

00:27:37.992 --> 00:27:43.833
Yeah, usually whatever's happening in the community, I'll go to it, but it's not so much of a cultural practice.

00:27:43.833 --> 00:27:45.032
It's more of a get together.

00:27:45.742 --> 00:27:49.613
yeAh, and again, lots of people in the community.

00:27:50.117 --> 00:27:53.788
And it's funny because we just all connect with each other, but they might be from different areas.

00:27:54.157 --> 00:27:54.907
That makes sense.

00:27:54.968 --> 00:27:55.248
Yep.

00:27:56.897 --> 00:27:57.667
Yeah.

00:27:57.813 --> 00:27:59.282
what you've really said to me today is that.

00:28:00.337 --> 00:28:11.347
It's really treat everyone the way we treat ourselves and be respectful to people and give them time to process things and be aware that the health industry can be overwhelming.

00:28:12.008 --> 00:28:16.557
And it's really common sense in what people should be doing routinely anyway.

00:28:16.557 --> 00:28:19.688
And your culture and your history is amazing.

00:28:20.157 --> 00:28:32.077
And I particularly love the kinship and the community spirit that, that you that you present and Indigenous community presents too, which is really what life should be all about as

00:28:32.423 --> 00:28:36.032
Oh, yeah, it is really a lovely thing.

00:28:36.833 --> 00:28:54.012
I don't know, cause my husband's Caucasian and he just says, I'm so envious of what you have, you know, cause he has his family and then he has his cousins and you know, and they all, they're all loving family and whatnot, whereas we got community yeah, and it's.

00:28:54.752 --> 00:29:02.772
It's really lovely and getting, I've grown up with it and now I'm getting to see my daughters grow up in that and it's um, makes us feel really rich.

00:29:02.962 --> 00:29:07.663
Yeah, but yeah, you're right, back to, you know, I guess kind of engaging with people.

00:29:07.712 --> 00:29:12.653
There's no little tricks or, you know, it is, it's just that common kind of sense and just being sensitive really.

00:29:14.367 --> 00:29:15.238
That's the main thing.

00:29:15.998 --> 00:29:25.248
Are there any particular support people we should turn to in this scenario if we've got a patient that we feel is struggling with our, healthcare we're delivering to them.

00:29:25.548 --> 00:29:28.817
I know in the public hospitals we have access to liaison workers.

00:29:29.198 --> 00:29:32.978
Like yourselves in the past, but what about in a outside setting?

00:29:33.317 --> 00:29:34.428
Where do people turn to?

00:29:34.428 --> 00:29:37.067
Where would I go to if I had a patient I was concerned about?

00:29:37.117 --> 00:29:38.377
To get some support for them.

00:29:38.647 --> 00:29:43.238
could call like you've got places like Nunkuwarrin Yunti in Adelaide, do you know that?

00:29:44.268 --> 00:29:46.817
That's a community controlled Aboriginal health service.

00:29:47.498 --> 00:29:51.428
So they could probably offer some advice and stuff.

00:29:52.127 --> 00:29:57.728
So these are all community controlled health services, where they will have clinics, programs.

00:29:58.417 --> 00:29:59.018
and what not.

00:29:59.028 --> 00:30:03.008
So just for advice, I'm sure they'd be happy to take a call for some advice.

00:30:03.678 --> 00:30:06.998
Also here in Adelaide I don't know if you've ever heard of ANTAC.

00:30:07.577 --> 00:30:24.442
But basically, over the years I guess, through the work of a lot of different people within hospitals, within the Aboriginal Health Service, have recognised a need to , make traditional healers available to complement the Western medicine kind of stuff.

00:30:25.573 --> 00:30:50.107
And I know in my time as a liaison officer, it was really hard to get traditional healers, and we'd only be looking for them if patients asked for them, because I guess we've got to remember as well, Most of the time, Aboriginal people are really grateful for Western medicine and the things that we can do, particularly with a lot of the health issues that our people face, a lot of the chronic disease and what not.

00:30:50.718 --> 00:30:57.288
But sometimes It ain't the be all and end all for them and they might be looking more for traditional healers.

00:30:57.867 --> 00:31:08.907
So they're, thankfully there's a service here now available for people if they're wanting a traditional healer and that person can come to the hospital, they might be able to come to your clinic.

00:31:09.248 --> 00:31:12.057
So again I can forward those details to you Gavin.

00:31:12.228 --> 00:31:14.448
Yeah, it's a really good thing.

00:31:14.988 --> 00:31:15.567
Excellent.

00:31:17.557 --> 00:31:20.238
I think we've covered a lot of the information I want to ask.

00:31:20.468 --> 00:31:24.018
Is there anything that you can think of that we haven't covered

00:31:24.018 --> 00:31:29.827
No, I think we've covered, you know, again just word of the day for me is just diversity.

00:31:29.827 --> 00:31:31.458
Like I said, we're just so different.

00:31:31.617 --> 00:31:37.617
Lots and lots of common things, with Aboriginal people, but also lots of differences as well.

00:31:37.718 --> 00:31:39.488
Different needs, different cultures.

00:31:41.603 --> 00:31:58.762
But, you know, again, I speak for myself, just as far as my recommendations around how to provide culturally safe or areas or whatever is doing things like you're already doing.

00:31:58.843 --> 00:32:03.903
You know, just have something up on your wall that says we're located on Kaurna land.

00:32:04.272 --> 00:32:06.792
Even on your email signature, which you've got as well.

00:32:07.248 --> 00:32:13.948
I know a lot of people are doing that now, but these little things really speak loudly in a really good way.

00:32:14.637 --> 00:32:19.087
And so before you even get in the door, you're going, oh cool, yep, this is cool.

00:32:19.577 --> 00:32:23.147
I know I did when I first walked into your, went to your clinic yeah

00:32:23.748 --> 00:32:24.167
Thank you.

00:32:24.857 --> 00:32:29.097
I would like to know if you're able to tell me how you say thank you in Kaurna

00:32:29.282 --> 00:32:30.282
Oh, good one yes.

00:32:30.333 --> 00:32:33.053
Ngaityalya yeah, Ngaityalya yeah,

00:32:33.053 --> 00:32:34.557
Ngaityalya Kendall

00:32:34.647 --> 00:32:35.738
Ngaityalya

00:32:35.758 --> 00:32:36.867
has been fantastic.

00:32:37.008 --> 00:32:39.198
Yeah, I hope it's been useful.

00:32:39.327 --> 00:32:41.938
Like I said, I'm not an expert on anything or anything.

00:32:41.938 --> 00:32:47.157
I just speak from my experiences and yeah, which I've loved.

00:32:47.157 --> 00:32:52.288
I've loved every aspect of my work and I do miss the kind of medical area.

00:32:52.728 --> 00:32:56.268
But yeah just now working in education and doing similar things.

00:32:56.278 --> 00:32:56.678
So it's good.

00:32:57.222 --> 00:32:57.972
Well, it's been brilliant.

00:32:57.972 --> 00:32:59.752
It sounds like you're in three different communities.

00:32:59.752 --> 00:33:05.222
You've got the Indigenous community, you've got the educational community, and you've had the healthcare community too,

00:33:05.232 --> 00:33:09.962
Yeah, very blessed to sort of work across those areas and just be part of the community.

00:33:10.573 --> 00:33:15.252
Well, Nathalia Kendall, uh, thank you very much for being on Aussie Med Ed.

00:33:15.252 --> 00:33:24.903
And thank you very much, and I really appreciate your time and explaining a bit of, The Indigenous culture and the sensitivities we need to be aware of in, in health industry.

00:33:25.333 --> 00:33:27.843
And I really appreciate your efforts and everything.

00:33:27.893 --> 00:33:29.022
So thank you very much.

00:33:29.357 --> 00:33:31.728
for having me and Yeah, it's been really good.

00:33:31.837 --> 00:33:34.327
I appreciate it and I've got one more word for you.

00:33:35.147 --> 00:33:41.428
It's when we say see you later, we say Nakutha Nakutha nakutha nakutha nakutha

00:33:41.758 --> 00:33:43.782
nakutha Thanks Gavin.

00:33:45.198 --> 00:33:47.087
Thank you very much for listening to our podcast today.

00:33:47.377 --> 00:33:53.298
I'd like to remind you that the information provided is just general advice and may vary depending on the region in which you are practicing or being treated.

00:33:53.698 --> 00:33:58.387
If you have any concerns or questions about what we've discussed, you should seek advice from your general practitioner.

00:33:58.907 --> 00:34:03.667
I'd like to thank you very much for listening to our podcast and please subscribe to the podcast for the next episode.

00:34:03.817 --> 00:34:05.567
Until then, please stay safe.

Kendall Fitzgerald

Local Kaurna/Narungga woman who has worked and lived in the Adelaide Aboriginal community all my life. I spent 22 years working as a Aboriginal Health worker in 2 major hospitals in Adelaide and currently working in Education.

Insights into Indigenous Health: A Focus on Cultural Sensitivity

Kendall Fitzgerald

New to Aussie Med Ed- Podcast?